Public sentiment is overwhelmingly negative, with deep outrage and sorrow over the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, especially concerning innocent civilians and children. There is a pervasive call for justice, compassion, and a resolution to the cycle of violence, while historical grievances and the complexities of colonial influence fuel frustration and despair about the situation.

Israel

Palestine

Global Community

Treaties from 1800’s are still honored, for instance those that set boundaries.

The Muslim hysterical blame of Jews for attacking Islam and somehow causing Ottoman defeat is the spark that caused the Muslim Brotherhood the declare jihad on Jews in 1928. MB and Iran have never considered the possibility that the Ottomans could not build a mechanized army quickly enlightened to defend their empire. Rather  they say that Islam guaranteed victory to Muslims. But some wicked attack on Islam caused defeat.

An Arab article that shows why MB jihad prevents peace and a Palestinian state

hollyglaser

I think that there is a basic lack of knowledge about Judaism in general. Islam and Christianity are actively working to convert and sometimes even use force. Judaism does not encourage,  but allows conversions (taking years) so most diaspora Jews still have about 50% of our genetic makeup from the Levant. That is why Judaism is an ethno-religion.  The oldest archeological artifacts in Israel/Palestine are from Jewish societies and the Western wall of the Ancient Israelite’s second temple still remains with the Al’Asqua Mosque built on top. Civilizations rise and fall but there is no denying that most Jews are just as indigenous as our, extended cousins, who remained and converted to Islam or Christianity and mixed with Arabs and Romans. During the time of the British Mandate Palestine and the founding of Israel violent acts were committed by all players. Early Zionists, a secular group, wanted the Jewish population to have self-determination in the land of their ancestors. To not be a persecuted minority or second class citizen. 
There is so much more but this is all I have time to write. Thank you for your interest.

Illustrious-Data9303

I would urge you to watch this documentary on Youtube, one of the best ever made. It's called "The 50 Years' War," and it was made by PBS in the US. It covers 1947 until the early 2000s, but you get the gist of the main dispute. Best and most objective source you'll find anywhere. Nothing today is as balanced in the same way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSAD9pS8NIw&amp;t=3373s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLorIXCcz4&amp;t=22s

You'll need other sources for the pre-1947 stuff, and from the early 2000s until today, but this doc will really help you. And it's really gripping.

Mikec3756orwell

My first impression after 10/7 was: *What?* Israel was the one that got attacked, but people were protesting against Israel — how did that make any sense?

And then I dived into history: what? After 6 million Jews were slaughtered, their brothers (Arabs and Jews were both Semites) refused to give them a home...

The objective facts I found out are below:

1. Before 1948, Palestine was a place occupied by both Arabs and Jews. Arabs over 60%, Jews over 30%. 
2. Jews had a much longer history in Palestine.
3. Before Israel was created, Jews were persecuted everywhere in Europe for centuries. Zionism is nothing more than an idea that Jews need a mother country to back them up. After the Holocaust, the UN decided to split the land of Palestine into two states: Israel (for Jews); Palestine (for Arabs. 
4. The hours after Israel declared its creation, 5 or 6 Arab countries, together with the Arabs in Palestine, attacked Israel, which started the first Middle East War. Amazingly, Israel won. And conquered more land. 
5. There were more wars to come, and every time, it was the Arabs who provoked the war. 
6. Arabs in Palestine had many opportunities to create their state, but they never did. Their goal is only one: eradicating Israel from the map. 
7. Throughout history, there’s never been such a thing as a fixed entitlement to live in a specific place. Humans have always lived wherever they could, by whatever means they could. Sometimes they settled in unoccupied lands; other times, they moved into places already inhabited. Sometimes different groups coexisted peacefully, and other times they fought — even killing each other. And in the case of Israel and Palestine, the truth I saw is, Israel wants peace, but many Palestinian Arabs - how many? Maybe the majority of them want to erase Israel from the map. That’s why they never stopped terrorism. 

“If the Arabs lay down their arms, there will be no more war. If Israel lays down its arms, there will be no more State of Israel.” — Golda Meir

Optimal_Actuator_123

OK I'm gonna go for it - I'm not going to use high-valence words in order to try and swing you opinion. Instead, I'm sticking to the facts. This is a hard one, because your choice of a starting point can sometimes influence your opinion, so I'm going to stick with mid-century history. 

# After WWI

The Ottoman Empire collapses, with allied forces taking over those governments in order to try to create stable countries. The British take control of modern day Israel, Palestine and Jordan, calling it all "The British Mandate of Palestine." This is the same process that creates modern states like Turkiye (originally an international coalition), Lebanon (French) and Syria (French). During this time, there are a few [plans to create a Jewish homeland ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission)somewhere in the Levant (a term that refers to modern day Israel, Palestine and Lebanon), but no big actions take place yet. 

In the meantime, many jews are migrating to the area in a process that jews call an Aliyah, where they joined existing jews in the region. The first Aliyah happened between 1882 and 1903 during Ottoman times, despite on and off bans of Jews owning / buying land in the region. 

Importantly, from the 1800s onward, jews managed to [purchase land in Palestine from land owners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine), who often lived in Lebanon. The land was not considered to be fertile, so many land owners lived in Beirut and were not seeing the returns they wanted. The residents of the land were often sharecroppers, or farmers who worked on someone else's land, which was sometimes owned by the government. 

During this time, modern day Israel / Palestine was not in good shape, the land was essentially drained of nutrients and modern farming practices had not reached the region. The people living there were deeply impoverished as well. When European jews bought or migrated to MP, they brought modern farming practices with them, which encouraged the belief that Jews were taking all the good land. 

The local Arab population did not like this, generally, and tensions grew, along with [Intercommunal Conflict in the region](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercommunal_conflict_in_Mandatory_Palestine), culminating the the [Arab Revolt of 1936-1939](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine).

Iamnotanorange

Well, did you ever try to step on a wasp net and scream  really loud "Please,Please and Please do not bite me?" Did it work? :)  
Imagine situation - 2 man, one women. Is it possible "unbiased opinion"  on it from those man? And that exactly unbiased opinion on situation  - it is as such. Or you need to read like 10 fut books and to be like 20 years older :)

vovap_vovap

There is no unbiased explanation of it or anything. The best we can do is understand our biases and address them.

PastTenceOfDraw

When the Ottoman Empire was defeated in WW1, 900,000 Jews lived in it.

The OE directly surrendered the land surveyed as a mandate for Jewish homeland where Jews were citizens by right, in a democratic state with equal rights.

Quran says Muslims always win because Allah favors them. Ottoman defeat caused a crisis in Islam. 

In 1920’s a feeling that the Muslims were doing Islam correctly so the Ottomans should have won. They did not look at what ottomans did, but cast as a war on Islam.
They blamed the Jews.And were encouraged by Germany to feel superior and that they should not have to live with inferior people, specifically, Jews .

In 1928, The Muslim Brotherhood formally declared jihad on Jews in Palestine with the Islamic purpose of exterminating them.

Palestine under the British;

- all state controlled land went from Ottoman jurisdiction to the UN mandate under UN legal system . When British  administered the Mandate, British law was applicable.

- No land was stolen .
- Muslims willingly sold worthless land to Jews at very high prices &amp; recorded it in ottoman land records .
- ownership of land was complicated 
— traditional ownership became ownership of a specific parcel of land in land records.

Because registering land in your name required owner to pay tax and send sons to Army, illiterate peasants were clueless and easy to swindle. 
Much chaos from this—

Mufti in testimony 1937 to Peel commission said that no land was stolen by Jews and no Muslim was forced to sell to a Jew. 

Mufti also demanded that all Jews leave, no exceptions. He was strongly influenced by Muslim Brotherhood, fought in Armenian genocide.

During WW2, Mufti arranged with Germany to send extermination troops with Rommel for the purpose of killing the mandate Jews . Rommels defeat stopped this.

Arab culture of honor does not allow a person to say ‘I made a mistake’ because that would shame them.

Honor defended by denying a mistake happened, and if it did, was done deliberately by another for which revenge in blood was the only way to restore honor

For more explanation 

[Arab culture honor and shame](https://nabataea.net/explore/culture_and_religion/honorshame/)

[unclear ownership status of land in OE](https://www.beki.org/dvartorah/landlaw/)

I was just like you, at first I tried to stay neutral then at one point I decided to actually keep up with what's been going on and inform myself more about the conflict. Oh boy, what a mistake, it's a shitshow from the beginning already, now I see what they meant by asking about their opinion of the Middle East on the first date if it's already going bad.

* My biggest recommendation would be going through the history of Islam and Judaism, to me it set a lot of things in perspective when I understood better about their history and why it is how it is today. Also somehow got me to listen to a 4 hours video challenging the foundation of Islam with contradictory historical evidence. I would recommend David Solomon if you want a really in-depth explanation of Judaism.
* International Law, not much to say here as I really don't know where you should start, but I would say it would be the most "neutral" even though it's a mess in itself to properly understand.
* Islamic Conquest, Intifada, 1900-1948 in the Middle East and the Arabia war, 1967 Six-Day war , 2005 Gaza (PLO 1964 if you wanna get more in-depth) and a bonus would be understand what Zionism actually means, as a lot of people have twisted its meaning in the sense it means "Get rid of Palestine" (looking at you Wikipedia)
* Ceasefire before Oct 7, Oct 7,

Just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff in my opinion doesn't come close to covering the situation today, but it sheds some light on how it came to be how both sides feel about each other, for the most part. The conflict is really a matter of asking yourself how morally just do you find the current conflict, what can either side do. Don't get your info off tiktok, try not to get your facts too much from Wikipedia around this current conflict, ironically enough.

My reasoning for getting involved in it was because I kept reading apartheid and genocide anywhere I looked about Israel, so I was first got into International Law, then the history of the religions, the events mentioned plus some, some of the NGOs reports and the criticism of said reports.

&gt;Therefore, I am reaching out with a sincere request: if anyone is able to provide a balanced and highly objective explanation of the Israel-Palestine conflict, I would be deeply grateful. I firmly believe that unbiased information exists, and I am committed to approaching this matter with an open mind and heart.

As others have said, it's just not possible. No matter what you think of something, someone will challenge that very thought. However, I do respect your attempt at trying to stay neutral, it's just not possible if you want to understand this conflict. My advice for this would be; don't listen to people shouting "genocide", "apartheid", "colonizers" etc. and have it affect your view of the situation.

some bonus links:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlK2mfYYm4U&amp;t=5493s&amp;ab\_channel=ShalemCollege-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%96%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlK2mfYYm4U&amp;t=5493s&amp;ab_channel=ShalemCollege-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%96%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9D)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKoUC0m1U9E&amp;ab\_channel=ShalemCollege-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%96%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKoUC0m1U9E&amp;ab_channel=ShalemCollege-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%96%D7%94%D7%90%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%9D)

Worth-Evidence-5507

The Jews got conquered. Then the area was conquered several more times over the years. 

Jews never completely left, but were tiny in numbers. In the 1800s, Jews started buying back land that had been stolen from them. The Ottoman Empire controlled the land at this time. Jews legally bought land and legally moved there. 

The Ottoman Empire then tried to conquer the entire world to force the whole world to be Muslim. They lost and the Ottoman Empire no longer existed. 

So Jews now owned all this land in an area that no longer belonged to any country. The British had inherited some land that had been owned by the Ottoman government. Empty desert. They gave it to the Jews, who used it, plus the land they bought, to create Israel. 

While the Jews were the majority in this land, there were a lot of Muslims too, who still believed Islam should conquer the entire world. So they along with many Muslim countries attacked Israel to try to erase it from the map. 

The Jews won. 

There have been countless wars since, but the Jews keep winning every time. 

It's 80 years later and we're in another war and once again the Jews are winning. 

turbografx_64

It sounds like you're on the right track in asking for a historical perspective! Depending on your current level of knowledge, Wikipedia may not be a bad choice. It should give you a map of the different eras and historical schools. 

Like others have said, it's hard to pick out a truly unbiased source, so you need to be able to see the issue from multiple angles. Having a map will help you be able to understand the theoretical perspectives and anticipate self-serving biases of the info you come across may be helpful in that regard.

This sub also has a wiki of recommended sources.

Ok_Presentation_2501

There are some documentaries online from the 60s and 70s. They seem a lot more balanced than the one-sided stuff that often thrown in our faces today by propagandists or simply by algorithms who mean no harm yet spread a lot of disinformation 

https://youtu.be/fSAD9pS8NIw

This one seems to be well regarded as balanced. 

Good luck! Great question by the way, not easy finding the truth out there but you will do.

Have you read anything by the early Zionist leaders by the way? Try a short but compelling essay by Jabotinsky called the Iron wall. It’s easy to find and a great read.

HugoSuperDog

Best advice I can give is to do some research and hear from many different sources. Ask questions. And come to your own conclusions.

favecolorisgreen

There are people who are Israeli and or invested in the Zionist project and then there is everybody else. The injustice is plain to see and unless you believe in 3000 yr old fairytales it’s should be clear to you too.

SeniorLibrainian

I can't stop recommending Neil Caplan's The Israel-Palestine Conflict:  Contested Histories.  Get the 2nd edition. It won't take you far past the early 2000s, but sounds like that's far enough for your purposes.

Alt_North

Thomas Sowell, one of the wisest thinkers said it all:

 https://youtu.be/KVkqlDNZg8M?si=H9jb_wItbrfF68ky

https://www.fondapol.org/en/study/pogroms-in-palestine-before-the-creation-of-the-state-of-israel-1830-1948/

A bit long but incredibly informative.

Revolutionary-Copy97

nope, sorry. even people who desire peace can not stay neutral for long. the conflict is too fraught with moral dilemmas, making it very hard not to take a stance.

CaregiverTime5713

I don't think you'll find one. The most neutral video I've seen on this still leaves out crucial elements. I suggest you simply listen to both sides.

Here's Traveling Israel from the Jewish perspective: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aql5BZ1gBec](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aql5BZ1gBec)

Deciheximal144

If you’d like some good social media accounts I can go look at the links of ones I think are well informed. Let me know! 

ExcellentReason6468

Best way is to check on youtube
Everyone here is biased one way or another

CounterExtension1820

We would have said the same thing about the Bosnians and Serbians twenty years ago, but it’s two decades later and even the Balkans are starting to stabilize, with Serbia even donating some vaccines to Bosnia during the COVID pandemic. That’s the Balkans, a region that was so universally hostile its name was treated as a byword for endless conflict for the last century.

Nowhere is hopeless, but it requires real work and help from the international community. If the US steps out of the way there is a real path that has been implemented across the globe.

Anonymous_1q

The solution is simple.  Occupy the weakest extremist government, ban their extremist elements for all time and attempt to foster a democratic society.

Go throw up a nazi salute in germany today and let me know how that goes for you.

"Peace"  doesnt always mean all parties walk away from the negotiating table getting what they want.  Peace is very often imposed on people.

Potential_Wish4943

Some kind of two state solution (no idea what borders could possibly be agreed on) with a massive 50m wall all the way round constantly monitored by an independent party.

Powerful-Union-7962

Sure there is, and it's the most obvious and logical solution to this entire war.

Hamas surrenders, turns over all their weapons and their fighters.  Done . . . The war they started will end. . . it's as simple as that.

The Palestinians have been offered their own State and lands multiple times over many decades - every single time they refused.  They'd (or at least their leaders) would much rather focus on killing all the Jews and doing away with Israel - this is far more important to them that to have their own country.

generallydisagree

You should zoom out a little bit... Things look bleak now but they can change. every generation has had shifts in attitude, although not always in the direction we hope, change has been a constant of political life.

As far as ending in a total genocide of one or the other - they've been fighting each other (this is including 5-7 Arab nation states committed to the elimination of Israel across the years) and by some measures trying to fully eliminate the other - for close to 100 years. No genocide yet. That's a pretty good precedent against your assertion.

LowRevolution6175

The only realistic solution or implementable outcome should’ve been done 60+ years ago but wasnt. 

What should’ve happened was that Israel stuck to the land it had bought originally from the Ottomans and what the Brits had laid out. Then Jerusalem should’ve been made an international city for both states to call their capital with oversight, happening from a combination of 5ish countries (Britain, USA, Russia, Egypt, and Saudi maybe?). This only could’ve been done if the UN actually was used as it should’ve been used and enforced this. 

There is plenty of evidence that proves that Jews were more than happy to work with Palestinians in the early days and vice versa.

But now that there is like 60+ years of violence from both sides nothing good will really happen. Unless there is an agreement made by countries in coalition to stop this and maintain some force/policing  in the region for a few decades to help ease up tensions from both sides, you are right in saying nothing good can happen here.

Safe-Storm6464

You need to see this: https://www.wsj.com/opinion/new-palestinian-offer-peace-israel-hebron-sheikh-emirate-36dd39c3?st=7cuCn3

TL;DR: Some Palestinian sheikhs, led by Sheikh Wadee' al-Jaabari of Hebron, are seeking to break out of the Palestinian Authority, establish an emirate, recognize Israel, and join the Abraham Accords.

ScottBurson

In theory, over the next 15-ish years, it's plausible Israeli iron beam defenses develop to the extent that they render rocket attacks, which is the most common Hamas attack, obsolete, and security in Israel becomes more relaxed as a result 

Jew_of_house_Levi

Are all tragedies equally bad? For example if Israel left Palestine, and Hamas was allowed to rearm and do more terror attacks resulting in X Israeli deaths, but the alternative was the status quo resulting in X+1 Palestinian deaths in the same time period, would both of those be equally tragic by your standards? I'm asking because I think saying there's no meaningful end to the conflict that isn't tragic seems to ignore the many small but meaningful ways the current tragedies could be mitigated. Even if there will always be deaths on both sides that doesn't mean we can't reduce that number.

Vesurel

[deleted]

Although I share your general sense of pessimism about the conflict, I'd challenge your assertion that it "will keep on going until one side eventually extinguishes the other." What are you basing that on? It's been over 75 years, and this hasn't happened yet; rather, the conflict just continues to slowly grind out, with both sides killing some percentage of the others' population but not coming anywhere close to "extinguishing" the other. The war in Gaza is one of the most sustained assaults by the Israeli military on Palestinians since the country was founded, yet it's only resulted in 3% of the Gaza strip's population dying. I don't mean to minimize those deaths, because it's still horrific, but it's also nowhere close to a complete extinguishing of Palestinians. 

If past is any precedent, it seems a lot more likely to me that the conflict will just continue as it has for the last 75 years than result in an all-out extermination of one side or the other.

BrockVelocity

I scrolled very far but couldn't find anyone mention this.

In a very recent development, the sheikh's of Hebron suggested leaving PLO and joining the Abraham accords (as per [WSJ article](https://www.wsj.com/opinion/new-palestinian-offer-peace-israel-hebron-sheikh-emirate-36dd39c3))

&gt; “We want cooperation with Israel,” says Sheikh Wadee’ al-Jaabari, also known as Abu Sanad, from his ceremonial tent in Hebron, the West Bank’s largest city located south of Jerusalem. “We want coexistence.” The leader of Hebron’s most influential clan has said such things before, as did his father. But this time is different. Sheikh Jaabari and four other leading Hebron sheikhs have signed a letter pledging peace and full recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Their plan is for Hebron to break out of the Palestinian Authority, establish an emirate of its own, and join the Abraham Accords.

As far as I'm concerned this is the most promising news with regards to this conflict in a very long time.

&gt; The letter seeks a timetable for negotiations to join the Abraham Accords and “a fair and decent arrangement that would replace the Oslo Accords, which only brought damage, death, economic disaster and destruction.” The Oslo Accords, agreed to by Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization in the 1990s, “have brought upon us the corrupt Palestinian Authority, instead of recognizing the traditional, authentic local leadership.”

&gt; The sheikhs’ letter pledges “zero tolerance” for terrorism by workers, “in contrast to the current situation in which the Palestinian Authority pays tributes to the terrorists.”

If this deal materializes we will see a completely new development, and put the ball squarely in Israel's corner. It will also put Israel's claim that the Palestinians are not interested in a peaceful solution to the test, should it be implemented and tried. It basically calls for the end of armed resistance towards Israel's existence, mutual recognition and cooperation.

It is often claimed that as soon as a Palestinian leadership who's genuinely interested in peaceful coexistence rises up and offers it, Israel would accept and peace would materialize. I guess we'll finally see how that claim shakes out should this come to fruition.

dronten_bertil

Israelis are currently coexisting with 2M Arab citizens. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Ok-Pangolin1512

I will try to change your view. There are lots of examples where long-running, bitter, seemingly intractable civil conflicts, end.

The IRA in Northern Ireland. The Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. The PKK in Turkey. The FARC in Colombia. These are all violent insurgencies, claiming to fight on behalf of ethnic groups or political ideologies, that fought for decades, and eventually laid down their arms or transitioned to political entities.

And this is SORT OF what the PLO did in the Oslo Accords, transitioning from a terror group to the Palestinian Authority, a governing body, and recognizing Israel. Obviously, they eventually resumed terrorism during the second intifada, but peace with the PA has mostly held since.

There are also long-running insurgencies that were defeated or eliminated, such as the Shining Path in Peru. In that case, the government brought a level of brutality that matched or exceeded the insurgency’s, which the insurgency couldn’t survive. This is what Israel is trying to do with Hamas in Gaza now.

The Israel-Palestinian conflict isn’t so unique, and there’s no reason it won’t end some day, just like all these other conflicts ended. No one expected Assad to fall so fast. Things can change quickly.

LateralEntry

As an Israeli I like to think that we are still heading in a more positive direction. Despite what I see in a the media in the US, Netanyahu’s coalition still polls below the threshold for a majority. I think we are heading towards a swing to the left (or at least center). His collation is seen as the fault for the lado in security for October 7, and ultimately why we are still this long into a war that we tired of. 

I think the question for Israeli society will be how can we maintain our security - does this mean we trade land for peace? Do we actually annex the settlements and swiss cheese the PA? October 7 really challenged even the most pro-2 state among Israeli society. The conversation has been one of how to maintain our security vs. finding a solution. The sentiment is strong that before we make a move, we want to see the Palestinians make a real effort and be a partner in peace. 

We’ve come incredibly close before and we can again. I just think we need to sunset the idea of a two state solution as we had envisioned and prepare for something different. Right now we wait - we wait for a change and see what we can do.

Majestic_Radish_9910

I think a genocide/ethnic cleansing is less likely than the status quo. Periodic wars and ongoing violence.

There are many realistic paths forward to peace and eventually even this conflict will be history, but that may take generations. In the near term, Gaza ceasefire is being negotiated, Syrian-Israeli peace deal is being negotiated, expanded Abraham Accords, and Iran/Hezbollah/Hamas are all weakened, and new Israeli PM in 2026.

Weak-Virus2374

what exactly is unique about israel/Palestine when compared to Angola?

or even rwanda, Mozambique, south Sudan, Nigeria or Zimbabwe all of which had ethnic conflict as soon as they gained independence from colonialism. all had unforgivable atrocities committed on and by each ethnic group. but all are moving towards an Angolan style peace and away from an israel/palestine war?

saintRobster

Takes a look at Israel , it has a growing Muslim and Arab minority, with Arabic as an official language on public signage, in schools, and throughout government services. Arab citizens serve as judges, Knesset members, doctors, lawyers, and in the IDF.

Now compare that with Palestinian society, where not a single Jew lives or holds any position of influence in fact, Jewish presence is explicitly unwelcome in many areas.

So no I don’t agree with the claim that Israel can’t coexist with other cultures. Yes, there are extremists in Israeli society (as there are in every society) but the structural inclusion of minorities in daily life, government, and national institutions speaks for itself.

Real coexistence is built on pluralism and mutual recognition and Israel, despite its flaws, has done far more to reflect that than its neighbors.

This to me is indisputable based on basic math and actually visiting the region.

Maple_Moose_14

There are several solutions that are possible. I'm going to disregard the political correctness factor and just suggest based on a practicality.

First a few assumptions:

(Israel)

1. Israel has an acute lack of strategic depth.
2. Israel is the most frequently attacked nation in the region. (#1 + #2 are intertwined)
3. Public gets increasingly hawkish and skeptical of a diplomatic solution over time.

(Palestinians)

1. Assume that narrative of non-representative leadership is true.
2. Will continue being hostile to Israel regardless.
3. They are never going to win a war and "exterminate Israel".

(All)

1. The goal is to allow all people to live peacefully, or at least significantly reduce friction.

Solutions (sorted by most complex and effective to least):

1. Relocation (fresh start) - Diametrically opposed cultures cannot coexist. Extermination is out of the question, so relocation remains as an option. The middle east is full of empty spaces, including some shorelines, that provide ample economical growth opportunity.
2. Relocation (Jordan) - Jordan is a Palestinian state with a non-Palestinian rule. It would still be hostile and bordering Israel, but largely separated by natural borders.
3. Buffer zones - Palestinians stay in Gaza and J&amp;S (West Bank), but give up some territory that serves as depopulated buffer zones that allow Israel to better monitor the borders and prevent attacks.
4. Proxy cycling - Israel assists in overthrowing Hamas and the PA, and lets other groups take their place. Rinse and repeat until the new groups agree to take sweeping de-radicalization measures. Once a population is largely de-radicalized (1 generation at minimum), it can be granted statehood and integrated into regional treaties like the Abraham Accords.

I'm sure there are more, but these are just 4 solutions off the top of my head, with varying levels of complexity and long term effect.

OkGuest3629

So assuming your conclusions are evidence based - they have to be- 

How did you come to the conclusion that Jews would never share land with the Arabs? 

If your opinion or conclusion is based on evidence, then your belief is flawed.. incorrect - it’s not accurate. And if your assumptions are incorrect then the entire premise is inaccurate therefore no matter what conclusion you come to- it will be inaccurate or a false belief. 

Why your premise is flawed?

All of the available historical fact about this proves your premise wrong; we have too much evidence the Jews have tried to share the land, therefore would have shared the land. If the Arabs would have agreed. 

The Jews wanted to share the land (as defined by action based evidence NOT feelings and intentions. As defined by what actually happened in the past.) 

FOR EXAMPLE:

There have been 8 official offers for an independent state for the Palestinians AND the Jews 

( not one offer was ever for the Jews to have all the land) 

The offers ranged from the Jews to have 15% of the land in 1936,  to 48% of the land. 

There have been 8 offers for the Palestinians to partition the land; for them to have their OWN country. 

For an independent Palestinian state or a path to statehood.

Last offer was in 2020 and the same thing happened as always happens. 

Jews accepted them all, Arabs rejected them all. 

Then the Arabs either declare war and invade or attack or escalate their violent terrorist attacks. 

Another thing is- every big violent outbreak and mini war they have had ? The Arabs started it. Every time..

As far back as you can go in this region- even to the seventh century- the Arabs always attacked the Jews first. 

Every war has been declared by the Arabs. On the Jews. 

Not the Jews on the Arabs. 

Jews never declared war on them. Not one time. 

So in reality the Jews have tried this entire time to share the land. 

Some of the modern offers were more generous than the UN partition plan. 

Also- another great point as far as this is concerned. After the Arabs rejected the Peel plan in 1936, WW2 happened and obviously the world was sad for the Jews .. the surviving Jews were sitting in refugee camps in Europe and there was a real life or death feeling about the Jews having this country of their own. 

The UN voted on it, it passed. 

Just as many other countries have been created - the same exact way. Splitting the land, population transfers. ( both the Jews and the Arabs would have had to do a population transfer ) 

Except this was less than 1 million people and the transfer was less than 20 miles. Not a big deal by any standards. 

So the UN declares the state of Israel and Palestine and guess what happens? 

The Arabs declare war, and eight different countries invaded- and that was after the UN forced a partition plan on them ( it was put to a vote and the vote passed) but they bucked it, even after that. 

Repeat this pattern many times. 

So now that we have our facts straight - we need to rephrase the question.

Lopsided_Thing_9474

There is a solution, though it would probably never realistically happen, especially now. Whether anyone thinks it's fair or not, change needs to start with Israel. They are the superior power and they are the ones in control of the region.

The only feasible solution is a two-state solution. Israel is never going to go away, and all of the people who think that Israelis should just "go back where they came from" don't understand that *most of them do not have anywhere else to go.* Even if they weren't born there, which a lot of them were, whatever property they had back in whatever country they came from isn't just sitting around empty waiting for them. Israel is their home, and creating 7 million refugees isn't a solution. Nor is a single-state solution viable. People like to call Israel an ethnostate as a derogatory term but they forget *why* it has the policies it does. It's not like the ethno nationalists in the US and Europe who are motivated by supremacist ideologies. I'm not saying those sentiments don't exist there, but Israel is a Jewish defensive ethnostate formed because they understand exactly what can happen to you when you are a minority in a nation that wants you dead. They will never agree to any solution in which a Muslim majority could seize political control of Israel, nor should they.

So the only way forward is a two state solution, but it needs to be a real proposal and Israel needs to make actual concessions to the Palestinian people. They need to abolish the illegal settlements. They need to rebuild all of the civilian infrastructure they destroyed. They need to allow independent investigators into their prisons to evaluate whether anyone is being held there illegally. They need to help establish independent routes by which aid can be delivered to the Palestinian lands which Israel cannot blockade. And they need to help build up a functioning Palestinian state. Just giving them the land and saying "here you go, it's your problem now" isn't good enough. That's how groups like Hamas gain political control.

This would not solve the problem overnight. There will still probably be terrorist attacks for years to come. Some people will never accept any Israeli presence in the region. But the longer Israel can show they are dedicated to a peaceful solution and the prosperity of the Palestinian people as neighbors, the less sway those terrorist organizations will hold. If Israel is not willing to do at least that much, then the fighting is just going to continue.

Crowe3717

100% correct. But the propaganda arm on this platform will shoot slogans and simply simp for one side. 



According to a December 2023 poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR):


82% believed Hamas’s decision to launch the attack was “correct”.


Over the past several decades, Israel has made or accepted multiple peace proposals aimed at resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. These offers often included the establishment of a Palestinian state, significant territorial concessions, and shared control over Jerusalem. In each case, the Palestinian leadership either rejected the proposal outright or did not provide a counteroffer. Various Arab figures and observers have, over time, expressed disappointment over these missed opportunities for peace.


1. 1937 – Peel Commission Plan

Proposal: British plan to partition Mandatory Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states.
Israeli Response: The Jewish Agency accepted the plan with reservations.
Palestinian/Arab Response: Rejected outright by Arab leadership.









2. 1947 – UN Partition Plan (Resolution 181)





Proposal: The United Nations proposed partitioning Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and an internationally controlled Jerusalem.
Israeli Response: Accepted.
Palestinian/Arab Response: Rejected by Palestinian leaders and the Arab League. Arab states launched a war following Israel’s declaration of independence.









3. 1967 – Post-Six-Day War / Khartoum Resolution





Proposal: After the Six-Day War, Israel signaled willingness to exchange land for peace.
Arab Response: The Arab League adopted the “Three No’s”: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel.









4. 2000 – Camp David Summit





Proposal: Israel offered Gaza, 94%–96% of the West Bank, and shared control of East Jerusalem.
Israeli Response: Accepted with support from the United States.
Palestinian Response: Yasser Arafat rejected the offer and did not present a counterproposal.









5. 2001 – Taba Talks





Proposal: A more generous offer than Camp David, with up to 97% of the West Bank and all of Gaza, including shared sovereignty in Jerusalem.
Israeli Response: Negotiators reached significant progress, but talks ended due to Israeli elections.
Palestinian Response: Talks ended without an agreement.









6. 2008 – Olmert Peace Offer





Proposal: Israel offered 93% of the West Bank with land swaps, a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, and shared control of holy sites.
Israeli Response: Prime Minister Ehud Olmert extended the offer.
Palestinian Response: Mahmoud Abbas did not accept or formally respond to the proposal.









7. 2020 – Trump Peace Plan





Proposal: Included parts of East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state and economic investment.
Israeli Response: Accepted the plan in principle.
Palestinian Response: Rejected it immediately and refused to negotiate.
Meanwhile the Palestinians destabilized Jordan and Lebanon. 

Even among left-leaning or centrist Israelis, there is widespread resistance to negotiating peace immediately after October 7, for several core reasons:





1. 

Loss of Trust





The scale and brutality of the October 7 attack — targeting civilians, including women and children — shattered Israeli public trust, even among peace advocates.
Many Israelis believe Hamas exploited previous peace gestures (e.g. Gaza withdrawal in 2005) to build up weapons and launch attacks.






2. 

Perception That Palestinian Society Supports the Attack





Polls showing strong Palestinian support for the attack convinced many Israelis that the issue isn’t just with Hamas, but a broader societal hostility to coexistence.






3. 

Security First, Diplomacy Later





The dominant view — even among moderates — is that Hamas must be destroyed first before any peace can be considered.
There is fear that offering a peace deal now would reward violence and send the wrong signal.






4. 

Collapse of the Israeli Peace Camp





Left-wing parties and the peace camp in Israel, already weakened, were further marginalized after October 7.
Even voters who once supported two-state negotiations now see it as naïve or unsafe.






5. 

Fear of a “West Bank Next” Scenario





Israelis worry that any Palestinian state in the West Bank could turn into another Gaza — launching rockets or staging attacks.
There’s growing insistence on long-term demilitarization and tight security control, which Palestinians reject.

After October 7, many Israelis — including former peace supporters — see the conflict not just as a political dispute, but as an existential threat. Support for peace talks collapsed, not because of rejection of peace as a concept, but because faith in a viable partner for peace was shattered.

Dannidude16

I couldn’t change your view if I tried. I am 70 years old. I always read the paper even as a child I can remember being about 10 years old and seeing all the stuff about the “Middle East conflict” never understood it then never understand it now and it seems there’s no end into it.

moverene1914

If some future generation of Israelis and Palestinians finally have the ability to talk to each other without outside interferance and corrpution imposing a positive feedback loop on violence, then eventually their kids will play with each other and those kids will take over never intimately experiencing the violence of the past. After that, peace will be easy.


Despite the narrative that Israel is an occupying outside force propped up by the US/west, Israelis generally have nowhere else to go. Nothing will make them stop fighting except peace.


Despite the narrative that Israelis generally want to exterminate all Palestinians, the population of Palestinians has never stopped growing and they too have nowhere else to go.


There is corruption on both sides that fuels violence. Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan, and all states and their people are better off for it. Seems like normalization with other Arab states is on the way, even Syria. There are obstacles on all sides, but as obstacles go away the opportunity for Israelis and Palestinians to talk and play together will fall into reach. One day the Islamic Republic of Iran will cease it's lukewarm war against Israel, and perhaps one day the Israeli version of MAGA will piss off other Israelis to the point that someone actually interested in peace takes office.

IceNeun

The conflict is already a tragedy, but I think you're wrong that it will end in a tragedy "finale". Not all conflicts have an ending, the conflict can continue for centuries with ups and downs.

Israel isn't going to genocide or ethnic-cleanse the Palestinians - putting morals aside, Israel has too much to lose, even if they can use Palestinian's vicious terror attacks as an excuse to do so. It's a developed country with a successful economy and still relatively good relations with most of the other developed countries.

Yes Israel builds and develops settlements in the West Bank but they're built over agriculture lands or uninhabited hills, the Palestinian villages and cities pretty much remain unchanged although their lives do become worse and worse due to these settlements and the security restrictions they bring with them, along with ultra radical violent settlers.

The Palestinians aren't going to ethnic-cleanse or genocide the Israelis, even if large parts of their population wish for that, simply because they're not powerful enough.

So your view is incorrect. I don't think there's a realistic solution to the conflict in the near future, but it doesn't mean that it's going to end in a genocide or ethnic-cleansing.

suckages

Upvoting not because I agree but because this post is important and extremely wrong and people need to see. Your post has a bunch of problematic assumptions. For one, the Palestinian side can't "extinguish" the Israeli side. The latter is too powerful and backed by the US. 

Second, The issue is not a religious one, genocidaires are doing the opposite of acting religiously. Third, having lived somewhere once, thousands of years ago, and leaving voluntarily, is so past beyond any statute of limitations, let alone evicting an entire nation of people. It would be one thing to try to live peacefully together, but that's not what happened. 

My question to you is: if you don't want these outcomes, are you doing anything to advocate for justice (whatever that means to you)? With politics, people usually don't do anything to advance their goals. They treat it like sports they watch on TV. Movements have the power to stop these kinds of tragedies, get involved.

FunnyDirge

It just takes time. Not one or two human lifetimes but possibly a few Centuries. That conflict is really so small that it is obvious to me that there are old generation leaders in Muslim World that want for it to continue and blow it out of proportion. With new generation of leaders coming into power in many Muslim countries a more pragmatic approach is already emerging. The way I see it; passions would cool with time and agreements will be struck. Mutual cooperation between Muslims and Jews and economic/technology exchange would benefit both sides.

Look at Turkey today. If we take religious zealotry view of Turkish state we would be on the streets screaming for "Two-State solution" and "Greek's right of return!". But no one in its right mind does that.

Rational minds prevail eventually. It just takes longer than human life.

OldAdvertising5963

I'll preface that I'm not unbiased, but the "extremes" on both sides are not equivalent.   The extremes on the Israeli side are largely nationalistic.  Some very fringe elements are religious, but they are quite fringe, even in the Israeli right wing.  On the Palestinian side, the harsh reality is that moslems, even the most liberal among them, are unwilling to allow even the smallest, most docile Jewish state to exist in the middle east, as that is an affront to the concept of the "ummah" and the "caliphate."  They consider the entire middle east "Muslim land," since it was conquered at one point, and any land conquered by Islam is considered eternally moslem.  Therefore, a non-moslem state can't exist in the middle east.

Excellent-Duty4290

That depends on your definition of "tragedy."

tolgren

It's easy to be pessimistic about finding a peaceful solution, but it's not impossible. One of the major barriers to peace is a profound lack of trust — polls have indicated that nearly 90% of both Palestinians and Israeli Jews believe that the other side wants to kill them and/or take their land. You can't build a serious deal on that kind of foundation.

I can't find the relevant polling right now, but it does appear that both Israelis and Palestinians are more willing to engage in serious negotiations for a two-state solution when it's paired with certain guarantees. Cracking down on extrajudicial violence against Palestinians, no funding for terror attacks, halting the expansion of settlements, and so on. 

Building the necessary trust won't be easy, and finding the political will to try will be even harder. It's hard to imagine that happening right now, but we're not even two years out from October 7th, and the war in Gaza is still ongoing. Slim majorities of both Israelis and Palestinians have supported a two-state solution within the past decade, and the biggest political leaders on both sides are growing old (especially Abbas). There's room for positive change, especially as the situation for Palestinians grows more dire and Israel's international standing deteriorates.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of barriers to this. Many attitudes are hardened, and I don’t see any viable future leaders that make me feel particularly encouraged. But peace is a realistic possibility, even if it's not necessarily the most likely outcome.

slightlyrabidpossum

Egypt and Israel fought for years, then they completely stopped.  

Egypt simply gave up on the idea of genociding the Jews, and that was it.  It has been almost 50 years since they last fought.  

Palestinians can do it as well. The fact that they still have the hostages is a good sign that they have not yet given up their genocide dream, but maybe soon!

Knave7575

I was gonna answer another comment who was blindly and simplistically calling for hatred against the Palestinians, but I'm writing my own comment instead.




I wish an Israeli leader had the strength, because yes, it takes a tremendous amout of strength, to come forward and say "we have made a mistake, and we've been perpetrating this mistake for 80 years. We're not going anywhere, but we'll stop colonizing the west bank, give a fair slice of the lands to the palestinians, and help rebuild what we have destroyed." They would win the hearts of the entire world, and the first people to renounce Hamas would be the Palestinians. 




Israel in its current state can't do that. Its only language is violence. Its only language is violence because its leadership is still represented by the poster children of the extreme reactionary zionist movements of the late 19th/early 20th centuries that were victims of the pogroms, except this ideology got exported in the middle east with nothing to stop it. It wins all the wars but it can't win peace. 




Netanyahu will never in a billion lifetimes utter such a statement, neither will his successor, neither the one after. Who knows when Israel will have a leader capable to make such a statement? 




I'm assuming most people will disagree with me. "It's ideology, it's islamism, they want all jews dead anyways". But Israel has never tried not munching on Palestinian land since 1967, has never tried not violently expulsing people from their houses in the West Bank, has never tried not imprisoning Palestinian civilians for arbitrary reasons, has never tried to not finance Hamas to dismantle the PLO. Again, its only language is violence. Can we really put the blame on ideology if everything the Palestinians know about Israel is senseless brutal murder? Have they tried showing humanity?

Unnwavy

tandemxylophone

Lets run through a few scenarios;


1. Netanyahu and his right wing party lose power. A moderate, or even left, party comes in. They work to de-escalate.
2. The rest of the world ceases supplying Isreal with support. Thus the conflict becomes far more costly for Israel.
3. The rest of the world actively takes a hostile stance to Isreal, sanctioning and threatening intervention.


Of course on the current trajectory with the current people in power and empowered (within both Israel and in Hamas) - the trajectory is not one toward peace. Neither side will back down.


But are you really saying that any of these is impossible?

wibbly-water

I understand why you would feel this way, but I can't accept this to be the case. Especially because succumbing to this idea is basically admitting that the side that would be extinguished in all likelihood is the Palestinians. Israel has all the firepower and backing of powerful countries. Even if Hamas or Iran or a coalition of Arab countries were to attack Israel in full force the rest of the world would come down upon them tenfold, which would in all likelihood result in the extinction of the Palestinians anyway.

People who think Hamas surrendering or being eliminated would end the conflict are wrong. As it ignores the deep-rooted Far-Right, Anti-Arab, and Ethnic-Cleansing-Zionist mindset that's rife in the Israel population. Regardless of Hamas there are powerful Israeli leadership that has majority support that want to expel Palestinians off their land and to colonize said land.

Any implementable solution would involve actual unified international pressure or force. The international community has coddled Israel and allowed it to suppress Palestinians for decades. There has never been a solution, treaty, etc. offered that did not favor Israel, and despite years of abuse and killing, Israel has been platformed as the superior side. Which has only led to more Palestinian oppression and more terrorism.

Your title says "realistically", and some may argue this is not realistic, but what needs to happen is international intervention and the US's withdrawal of Israel support – and responding with measures to halt active hostilities. This includes arresting and trying war criminals on both ends. The world needs to be faced with the conditions of the West Bank and the genocide in Gaza and shamed for them the way they were with the Holocaust. Maybe *maybe* then will a switch happen. Because Israel already has its support. Palestine needs its proper international support/allyship that steers its liberation away from terrorism.

ntt307

I always figured we could force them apart remove all governments and force them all to move to random countries with randomly assigned IDs. Then nuke the precious God land from orbit. So that if you truly want to meet God. You really will by going there.

🤷‍♂️

ShopMajesticPanchos

Your assumption is factually false when it comes to Israel and basically ignores the Israeli attempts to reach out for peace and the Israeli society.

How can you claim that Israel is being controlled by religious fundamentalists when it offered the Palestinians a separated Palestinian state?

In the 30's - the Jews agreed to discuss to Peel Commission offer even though it gave 60% of the whole land to the Arabs. The Arabs completely turned it down.

Then in 1947, the Jews celebrated the UN partition plan which granted both of the sides a separated state - the Arabs once again declined it and opened a war. 

In the 90's - the Israeli government sighed on the Oslo Accords while Arafat openly admitted that he never planned to respect them and compared them to the Hudeybah agreement, where Mohammad basically fooled his enemies.

When Bibi was elected for the first time  in 96' he gave the old Jewish city of Hebron to the Palestinians (PLO).

During the early 2000's Ehud Barak and Clinton offered the Palestinians a state over 90% of Judea and Samaria with a shared control over the old city of Jerusalem. Arafat turned it down.

Then in 2005 Israel completely pulled out of Gaza every single Jew - including the dead ones - and left it with green houses, investments from international groups, and the Europeans on the border of Egypt and Gaza. The Palestinian answer? Electing Hamas in 2006. 

In 2007 Ehud Olmert offered the Palestinians a state over 97% of Judea and Samaria including parts of East Jerusalem and a shared mamangmnent over the old city.  Abu Mazen turned it down.

As for the Israeli "religious fundamentalist society" - recently there was an attempt by far right groups to spark the idea of re-settle Gaza. The vast majority of the Israelis strongly opposed the idea - including the PM Bibi.

Echo693

There are multiple absolutely obvious solutions.  Not all palatable by West for various (mostly racist) reasons.

Option A: Genuine Arab strongman (preferably a King). Supported by Israel, Saudi and Jordan - maybe a splinter of the Hashemites or Saudis for a sprinkling of Islamic legitimacy. MUST be allowed to kill whoever opposes them. Doesn't sign a peace agreement right away, Hudna will do. Kick the can down the road. Once he is fully established, sign the peace agreement. 20 years.

Option B: Mordechai Kedar's emirates solution. Palestinians are tribal. Cities are their capitals. Treat each "emirate" independently, and they all roll up to a federated solution that has limited military capabilities and signs a peace deal. Refugees can go back to any emirate they want.  Hebron obviously wants this solution and has already agreed terms with the Settlers.

Option C: UAE or Jordan.  Takes ownership (again in the case of Jordan).

Option D: (My favourite) Palestinians actually become some form of Democratic.  To be clear, this is NOT "hold Elections", this is partly/fully free on the Democracy index.  No 2 democracies have ever gone to war with each other.  What's crazy is that the more Democratic Palestine becomes, the stronger they will become AND the more likely Israel will be to take risks and give up more at the negotiation table.    

Will these resolve all issues?  No.  Will Israel be left alone, likely yes.  Will Arabs still want to kill Js.  Probably.  But we are talking about moving things from where they are now to Greece/Turkey, which suffered an infinitely more bloody painful seperation/transfer 20 years before Is/Pale.

DefiantDistance5844

The wishy-washy way the world has approached the situation, attempting to implement the two state solution despite it obviously not working, trying to negotiate with terrorists like they are a real government, etc. Has made this problem so much worse. 

Instead of trying to turn Palestine into a real country that geographically is split into two unconnected bits, Palestine needs to just be absorbed into Israel. Give Palestinians equal rights and citizenship, focus on redeveloping the land and making the quality of living better, and continue to stamp out terrorists with overwhelming military force. 

And the Muslim community needs to get on board instead of trying to destroy such a militarily superior force. I'm sorry but they are not helping their people by perpetuating war against an opponent they can never beat. Sometimes you need to suck it up and surrender.

wholesaleweird

You may be right- it’s one of the more complicated ethno-religious conflicts in the world and various parties have attempted to solve it to no avail for decades.  However, I think the the biggest obstacle to even attempting to seeing what a peaceful co-existence or peace process would look like is the influence of Western powers (namely, the United States) and to a lesser extent other regional actors like Iran.  The powers that be need to take an interest in resolving and moderating the conflict, and that is not the case when one side has no incentive for peace or co-existence because they have the full backing of the most powerful country in the world.  Israel has nukes, and the iron dome.  Other than massive and awful security breaches like Oct 7, the truth is Israelis live in relative peace and security and there is just no real incentive for Israel to resolve this conflict diplomatically.  It is a complicated issue and it needs to be treated like it, not this completely one-sided support where violence of one side is terrorism and (much greater) violence from the other side is security.  I really do think if the United States (and others) exerted more pressure on Israel to actually come to a better solution we could at least try to see what works and how progress can made.  Tbh, we got pretty damn close with Bill Clinton.  But idk with the current influence of AIPAC in American politics and the Trump administration I do share some of your cynicism

sluttynoamchomsky

If the Arab and Muslim world accepts Israel, provides a living space for the Palestinians, and stops attempting to exterminate Jews, this conflict will end.

arrogant_ambassador

That's a very shallow view. It can absolutely be stopped. There's just no political will to do so. USA and western governments need Israel to destabilize the region. Maybe they feel the genocide is excessive. But maybe not. Either way they're invested. A strong middle east would be bad for their hegemony. Same reason they destabilize Latin America and Africa. Israel is just in the news more right now than those other places

mightymite88

Various middle eastern countries oscillate all the time between different levels of liberalism, "socialism", religious fundamentalism, non-religious authoritarian regimes. And all the time, you have various religious fights between christians, sunnis vs shiites, berbers, etc, as well as regions where all the religions get relatively along.



I wouldnt know why some fundamental shift like e.g secular iran couldnt happen in palestinia?



I agree that all those proposed policies that people are so gung-ho about are going nowhere, or currently just wont be accepted by people.



It would have to be some real social movement, propably spanning both palestine and israel. Perhaps some charismatic leader or grassroots movement or both, that is able to appeal to both sides, a sense of unity and peace on a non-religious basis. Something like that. It would be propably surprising to anybody in the current discourse.



So yes, i would agree that those activists that think they can just badger the us into the "correct" wonky policy and that will solve it are ignorant.


But i would try and change your view in the sense that this would mean its just doomed forever. Positive things could absolutely happen, why couldnt they?

SenatorCoffee

Israelis and Palestinians do co-exist peacefully within the borders of Israel. There's virtually no terrorism or violent extremism amongst the Palestinian citizens of Israel, who come from the same culture as those in the West Bank and Gaza.

If Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank had the same economic and political opportunities as their brethren within Israel the violent extremism would fade.

wefarrell

External influence on power distribution in Gaza is working. USA/Israeli effort for Aid Distribution is working mostly. Hamas recently reported that they feel the lose of power over Gaza. More and more palastinians realize that they cannot continue fighting israel. But even if they announce defeat there will be enough radical hamas that will continue the fight. There will be some terrorist cells that remain and they will strike from time to time. Israel has made many offers for a 2 state solution and they will do it again once there will be a political uprising in gaza which will not have the goal to annihilate the jews or their state and is rather open to coexist with its economical powerforce. Israel will help the new government to eradicate the remaining terrorist to their best ability.

It will be a hard path for the region but peace with israel is historically the better decision. Arabs tried hard to defeat them and although most ME countries wanted to erase israel at any point in its history, israel still wanted peace with them and got to peace with them, so they will do it for the rest of the region aswell.

Gathered22

&gt;this conflict will keep on going until one side eventually extinguishes the other through either ethnic cleansing or genocide.

Have you considered the possibility that it just keeps going? It's been a cycle of open war, temporary peace, terrorist attacks, retaliations, temporary peach, etc., etc., going on now for almost 80 years. 

Hopefully it won't get to Reconquista levels of "forever", but maybe they'll break the 116 years of the "Hundred Years War". 

Which, BTW, is one of those "there's no solution to this problem" wars between violently opposed religious factions... and yet it did eventually end without destruction of either side. 

Though it did take at least one Civil War, ironically on the ultimately winning side, though it took another 600 years before England and France could be considered "allies". What makes you think it's impossible that eventually one or the other side will have a Civil War that crushes their faction of extremists? 

Never is a very long time, and predictions of the form "X will never happen" have a long history of falling to the forces of... history.

hacksoncode

There isn't. The situation is far more complex than your average armchair historian will let on and it will most likely end in tragedy for both of them.

LighttBrite

palestine is not just Gaza and the west bank. Palestine is all of Israel and all of Jordan. Given that Israel does have a peace treaty with Jordan, and there are 2 million Israeli Arabs living as full Israli citicens in Israel, we can safely claim that Israel is at peace with at least 80% of all "Palestinian Arabs".

Israel has made 2 big mistakes. They did not insist on Egypt taking back Gaza together with the Sinai when they made the peace deal, and the did not annex Judea and Samaria when those lands were still full of jewish settlements.

Maybe getting the terrorists out of Gaza and the west bank now requires ethnic cleansing, but i won't give up the hope that a few years of de-nazification will be enough.

In Israel, there is already a peace-loving majority represented in the Knesset.

In the abondoned territories, there unfortunately is quite a lot of brainwashing that needs to be undone, but i hope it's possible.

Archophob

Moderates in Israel are pretty close to taking back their government. Consensus opinion is that Bibi and his coalition are out in the next election.

jbslaw1214

&gt; The Hebrews aren't in the Levant despite it being their promised land!

Israelites are pissed

&gt; Canaanites are in the Levant.  That's too many non-hebrews!  

Israelites are pissed.  

&gt; Kingdom of Israel (replaces) the Canaanites in the Levant.  That's too many Hebrews!  Succession crisis!  

Israelites are pissed

&gt;  the United Kingdom of Israel splits into the Northern Kingdom of Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Judah 

Israelites are pissed

&gt; Babylon conquers the Northern Kingdom of Israel.  

Israelites are pissed

&gt; Babylon conquers the Southern Kingdom of Judah.  

Israelites are pissed

&gt; Persian Empire conquers the Babylonian Empire

*Israelites are ecstatic and make Cyrus the Great a pseudo-saint*

I just think the exception is notable

JustAFilmDork

I never owned it. It’s my turn to ruin these people’s lives

https://preview.redd.it/6lrtdnn8ca2f1.jpeg?width=1284&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=db716d25b2af77ecab57a92be8f1dfd623d3f569

Practical-Mode310

Deep down inside this is the way and we all know it

Writing_Legal

Egypt vs turkey vs Greece vs Iran vs italy vs Britain vs Israel vs Palestine vs Saudi Arabia

original_names_weird

Let’s conquer Central Asia instead, easier and better climate

ImperiousOverlord

Let's not. We have enough of our own problems to deal with without taking on all of that mess.

redracer555

Hasn’t it always been whoever has the most toys wins?

ChainOk8915

PrincessofAldia

I agree with the first row only :) 💙🇮🇱

Why does ARMENIA control the Gaza strait????

CypriotGreek

OB1KENOB

Trump: "and we are going to rename the Middle East to the American East!"

Ok-Bridge-4707

HistoricalShower758

The USA is letting Azerbaijan keep a bit of its territory. Seems generous.

davogordi

We tried that back in 2004 and it didn't work. Too many resisted the American dream I suppose, lol 😆 😂 😅 🤣 🙃 😜

gamingzone420

As an Israeli i would prefer anything but our current government so yesss

shai_marvel

hell_fire_eater

Are we gonna ignore the Tigray just hanging around in Ethiopia?

Hydrahta

america tried, but dreams shattered in afganistan and iraq.. there was also the african dream but that also shattered in somalia..

mhhammoudaTreeUP

Israel-palistina conflict solved. The second US civil war begins...

Schwifty234

vshark29

bashar_al_asad69

I mean...isnt it almost already like this anyway lol

Western_Paper6955

Yeah, all the other nuclear powers in Asia are gonna be thrilled

AirUsed5942

Recent Israeli airstrikes in Gaza have resulted in numerous civilian casualties amid ongoing military operations aimed at Hamas.

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